After Cyrus’s first visit with Orkideh, he ties his shoes and thinks about what he wants (or thinks) his shoes represent: class antipathy, allegiance to the proletariat. And he ponders the classist implications of gratitude. What does this chapter tell you about Cyrus and his character? Do you think there’s a difference between wanting to be perceived as a good person and being one? Do you agree with Cyrus’s feelings about gratitude in the face of human suffering?
Oh I’ve met so many Cyrus’s in my life. He’s the guy you mistakenly confide in. You’re having a hard time for one reason or another and there could be a million socially constructed reasons why, and you mention that you read somewhere on the internet that a gratitude list helps. You tried a lot of things and so you tried this as well and wow you just wanted to say that today, after doing it, you felt just a little bit better. After which you get a lecture on free will versus determinism which makes you regret your having confided in him in the first place. You suddenly feel worse. This makes him feel good. Thank god Zee tells Cyrus off later in the book. I’ll otherwise I would have gone in there and done it myself.
"Which would weigh more on the cosmic scales: a tear of gratitude at the great beauty of a flower lifting through ash, or a tear of delicious rage?"
I found this a gripping chapter (and quote) from him. Cyrus is bifurcating these sensibilities; he is rightly criticizing these classist implications of gratitude, but also flattening it... I do think Orkideh opens his eyes for beauty in as well beyond suffering, pointing out the Iranian (male) knack for obsession about death and suffering, showing that perhaps you can be freed from this. I wonder if her going barefoot, and Cyrus emulating this, parallels this freeing.
I felt like this scene illustrated how much Cyrus tries, so much effort-filled trying. He is not someone for whom ease is a frequent sensation. This is neutral, it doesn’t make him a bad or good person; just a psychically tired one. There is so much heaviness to his character, which I feel like is a very accurate way of portraying trauma, addiction, and suicidal feelings. He has to stay in his head and analyze and chew on his thoughts because to drop into his body, to be in touch with his emotions (now that he’s sober) would feel limitless and out of control. Gratitude as an emotion is too much to consider. He has to come at it from the angle of gratitude as an intellectual exercise. I loved how Akbar wrote Cyrus this way. You want to strangle and hug him simultaneously throughout the book (or at least I did).
I related with Cyrus’ thought about there being no such thing as ethical consumption, and when he followed that up with “one has to choose your battles” it made me laugh and warm up to him. I seemed to grow fonder of him in this pages particularly. He’s such a clueless mess, and re-reading his first meeting with Orkideh underscores how oblivious he is to his privileges and his youth. He’s maddeningly self-obsessed, but lovable at the same time. His inner monologue reveals dilemmas that many of us have probably considered. I appreciated his pondering on whether gratitude itself is a luxury. I think what struck me in this chapter was Cyrus’ absolute naïveté. He’s seen tragedy and grief, yes, but in some ways he’s deeply innocent, even frustratingly so. But his inner goodness shines through here, so we the reader, know we can trust him to lead us through the story. It was around this section that I became more invested in his journey, and unconsciously made the decision to stay by his side to the end of the book. After all, he’s just searching for meaning in his days, his life. We can’t fault him for that - isn’t that what all of us are looking for?
This chapter shows that Cyrus is an honest character. He is gifted at metacognition—having a hawk's eye view of his own thinking. His bs monitor is attuned, most especially to his own bs.
I like how Cyrus points out the white-washing of gratitude and how anger and disappointment are an equally honorable reaction to one's situation.
Wanting to be good and being good is separated by action.
I have read to just after this point in the text so I can’t speak to what happens next, but I have to say this section on gratitude really resonated with me. Much like Cyrus’ annoyance with the ethos of alcoholics anonymous and the need for people to attach meaning to everything, the gratitude question is consistent with his character thus far. From the perspective of a non-religious person, I understand the feeling that the insistence on gratitude as a cure for mental and existential distress feels like an imposition. This isn’t to say it doesn’t have value for some people much like religion serves a purpose for many people. But why is gratitude a necessary element to redeem one’s character? Anger can be just as righteous, and perhaps less self-righteous.
A bit that stuck with me: he and Zee are loyal to Vans and Crocs because of the everyday-ness they signal. He immediately follows with how they’re lining billionaire corporations’ pockets (decidedly not good). He’s matter of fact about it, but with the one little example, we know he thinks the system is bullshit, participation in it is bullshit, and he himself is bullshit.
Character wise, he seems like an idealist to a fault. There’s a difference between wanting to be seen as good and actually being good. But his allowance for what is “good” is so tiny!
It makes it so he’s performing ”goodness” he’ll never achieve. And he knows it. But the play-acting is the closest he can get to actually being good. The constant performance and self-loathing has to be exhausting.
I think Cyrus, at this point in the book, was ego bound and relied on an external locus of control. As for me, when I am bound up in my own suffering, it is difficult to summon gratitude for anything.
I fundamentally disagree with his concept of gratitude as being something that one does for others, or that has deep cosmic significance. I think gratitude is something we do to benefit ourselves, and the people (if any) to whom we are grateful. I do agree that there's a very common failure state of people doing things for others with the sole goal of getting gratitude: but the whole thought exercise about an imaginary child being grateful while being bombed is a really common idea in religious circles that I think is harmful overall. I think the entire book has an undercurrent about people performing religion as separate from believing religion, and this ties in in a way I have trouble articulating.
I really love Cyrus. He's too-clever-by-half in a way that I would usually find annoying, but somehow it just comes across as endearing in this context
Do you think there’s a difference between wanting to be perceived as a good person and being one? Definitely Do you agree with Cyrus’s feelings about gratitude in the face of human suffering? This so resonates and is ironic considering the timing of today’s announcement of the launch of a $400 basketball shoe designed by a former POTUS whose perceived character has divided the nation. When sold under the guise of funding a campaign, a shoe 3x the cost of air Jordan’s and 60% of campaign funds can be retained for personal use, is a campaign being funded or legal battles? Is it something a struggling middle class base can truly afford? True examples of the duplicity audacity can hold.
Oh I’ve met so many Cyrus’s in my life. He’s the guy you mistakenly confide in. You’re having a hard time for one reason or another and there could be a million socially constructed reasons why, and you mention that you read somewhere on the internet that a gratitude list helps. You tried a lot of things and so you tried this as well and wow you just wanted to say that today, after doing it, you felt just a little bit better. After which you get a lecture on free will versus determinism which makes you regret your having confided in him in the first place. You suddenly feel worse. This makes him feel good. Thank god Zee tells Cyrus off later in the book. I’ll otherwise I would have gone in there and done it myself.
"Which would weigh more on the cosmic scales: a tear of gratitude at the great beauty of a flower lifting through ash, or a tear of delicious rage?"
I found this a gripping chapter (and quote) from him. Cyrus is bifurcating these sensibilities; he is rightly criticizing these classist implications of gratitude, but also flattening it... I do think Orkideh opens his eyes for beauty in as well beyond suffering, pointing out the Iranian (male) knack for obsession about death and suffering, showing that perhaps you can be freed from this. I wonder if her going barefoot, and Cyrus emulating this, parallels this freeing.
I felt like this scene illustrated how much Cyrus tries, so much effort-filled trying. He is not someone for whom ease is a frequent sensation. This is neutral, it doesn’t make him a bad or good person; just a psychically tired one. There is so much heaviness to his character, which I feel like is a very accurate way of portraying trauma, addiction, and suicidal feelings. He has to stay in his head and analyze and chew on his thoughts because to drop into his body, to be in touch with his emotions (now that he’s sober) would feel limitless and out of control. Gratitude as an emotion is too much to consider. He has to come at it from the angle of gratitude as an intellectual exercise. I loved how Akbar wrote Cyrus this way. You want to strangle and hug him simultaneously throughout the book (or at least I did).
I related with Cyrus’ thought about there being no such thing as ethical consumption, and when he followed that up with “one has to choose your battles” it made me laugh and warm up to him. I seemed to grow fonder of him in this pages particularly. He’s such a clueless mess, and re-reading his first meeting with Orkideh underscores how oblivious he is to his privileges and his youth. He’s maddeningly self-obsessed, but lovable at the same time. His inner monologue reveals dilemmas that many of us have probably considered. I appreciated his pondering on whether gratitude itself is a luxury. I think what struck me in this chapter was Cyrus’ absolute naïveté. He’s seen tragedy and grief, yes, but in some ways he’s deeply innocent, even frustratingly so. But his inner goodness shines through here, so we the reader, know we can trust him to lead us through the story. It was around this section that I became more invested in his journey, and unconsciously made the decision to stay by his side to the end of the book. After all, he’s just searching for meaning in his days, his life. We can’t fault him for that - isn’t that what all of us are looking for?
This chapter shows that Cyrus is an honest character. He is gifted at metacognition—having a hawk's eye view of his own thinking. His bs monitor is attuned, most especially to his own bs.
I like how Cyrus points out the white-washing of gratitude and how anger and disappointment are an equally honorable reaction to one's situation.
Wanting to be good and being good is separated by action.
I have read to just after this point in the text so I can’t speak to what happens next, but I have to say this section on gratitude really resonated with me. Much like Cyrus’ annoyance with the ethos of alcoholics anonymous and the need for people to attach meaning to everything, the gratitude question is consistent with his character thus far. From the perspective of a non-religious person, I understand the feeling that the insistence on gratitude as a cure for mental and existential distress feels like an imposition. This isn’t to say it doesn’t have value for some people much like religion serves a purpose for many people. But why is gratitude a necessary element to redeem one’s character? Anger can be just as righteous, and perhaps less self-righteous.
I’ve only read up to their first visit.
A bit that stuck with me: he and Zee are loyal to Vans and Crocs because of the everyday-ness they signal. He immediately follows with how they’re lining billionaire corporations’ pockets (decidedly not good). He’s matter of fact about it, but with the one little example, we know he thinks the system is bullshit, participation in it is bullshit, and he himself is bullshit.
Character wise, he seems like an idealist to a fault. There’s a difference between wanting to be seen as good and actually being good. But his allowance for what is “good” is so tiny!
It makes it so he’s performing ”goodness” he’ll never achieve. And he knows it. But the play-acting is the closest he can get to actually being good. The constant performance and self-loathing has to be exhausting.
I think Cyrus, at this point in the book, was ego bound and relied on an external locus of control. As for me, when I am bound up in my own suffering, it is difficult to summon gratitude for anything.
I fundamentally disagree with his concept of gratitude as being something that one does for others, or that has deep cosmic significance. I think gratitude is something we do to benefit ourselves, and the people (if any) to whom we are grateful. I do agree that there's a very common failure state of people doing things for others with the sole goal of getting gratitude: but the whole thought exercise about an imaginary child being grateful while being bombed is a really common idea in religious circles that I think is harmful overall. I think the entire book has an undercurrent about people performing religion as separate from believing religion, and this ties in in a way I have trouble articulating.
I really love Cyrus. He's too-clever-by-half in a way that I would usually find annoying, but somehow it just comes across as endearing in this context
Do you think there’s a difference between wanting to be perceived as a good person and being one? Definitely Do you agree with Cyrus’s feelings about gratitude in the face of human suffering? This so resonates and is ironic considering the timing of today’s announcement of the launch of a $400 basketball shoe designed by a former POTUS whose perceived character has divided the nation. When sold under the guise of funding a campaign, a shoe 3x the cost of air Jordan’s and 60% of campaign funds can be retained for personal use, is a campaign being funded or legal battles? Is it something a struggling middle class base can truly afford? True examples of the duplicity audacity can hold.
What is this in reference to?